Rex: Well, I’ve
pretty much always tried to keep busy performing, whether it’s in a local cover
band or any of the original bands I play in, like X-Sinner and GX. Those two bands don’t play out much anymore,
so I find ways to keep the chops up vocally and playing. I just enjoy performing.
PRR: How long have
you been performing? Not trying to pin
an age on you, but it seems you’ve been a part of my musical world for a long
time.
Rex: Since the mid
1970s. Zion was started in 1980 or 81,
but we didn’t get a recording deal until 1988.
PRR: Where were you performing with Zion
geographically, for those first 7 or 8 years?
Rex: We were based in
Sioux Falls, SD—where I just recently moved back to from California—and we
played mostly in the South Dakota, Iowa, Minnesota, North Dakota region. We were a Midwest thing. We played with Rez in Omaha, but that was
later on after getting on Image Records.
We actually opened for Bloodgood in Sioux Falls before we had that
record deal, and that’s where we first met David Zaffiro of Bloodgood. Their soundman quit shortly after that show,
and so I volunteered to help them out of a bit of a jam, and I ran their sound
for the rest of the tour. That’s where
David and I became friends and what led to him producing the Zion album, Thunder From The Mountain. We did all the pre-production in Sioux
Falls and then flew to Seattle, where David lived, to track the album. So, David lived for almost a month in Sioux
Falls, helping us get properly prepared to record the project, helping with the
arranging, co-writing, etc.
PRR: I’ve never met him, but have heard only great
things about David Zaffiro. I love his
music, both with Bloodgood and as a solo artist.
Rex: Yeah, he’s a
great guy and a great friend.
PRR: Were you always sure you wanted to do
Christian hard rock and metal?
Rex: Not really,
no. I kind of dove headfirst into it
after my conversion to Christianity in 1979, because I figured that was the
thing to do. Later on, I realized there
was a lot of unnecessary division between mainstream music and “Christian”
music. The CCM industry loved that
aspect and profited hugely from it. I
saw that side of it and it was very money driven. When you start meeting and interacting with
different “Christian” labels, and the like, you realized that many times they
were basically wolves in sheep’s clothing.
Your perspective changes.
PRR: You are definitely not the first artist I’ve
talked to that holds that opinion about the labels…
Rex: Yeah, I’m
sure. When the sell is that the truth
only comes from one side and not the other…meaning Christian versus secular…you
can miss some great truths being poetically delivered in many mainstream songs.
PRR: You mentioned that you got saved in the late
70s and decided you wanted to do Christian rock and metal. How did the idea for Zion start?
Rex: I was performing
in a locally well-known hard rock band called ROX. My departure from that band, and news of my
conversion quickly spread through the local music grapevine. ROX was a very hedonistic band, and so many
people were kind of stunned at the change in me. Anyway, another local musician from another
established band had also quit and was looking to put something together that
was rock but also glorified God, too.
That was Dave Moore. He, and his
longtime musician friend, who happened to be the program manager of the local
FM rock station in Sioux Falls, Bruce Fischer, called me. I was a drummer/singer in those days, and so
we got together to jam. We decided to
try and do something, and we all had ideas for a name. My idea was Zion, and I designed the
logo.
We began performing together for youth group events, and we
put on our own concerts. Word sprerad
and we began receiving more calls to perform.
We then got to open for Sweet Comfort Band, and then we were put on the
bill of a large Christian festival put on yearly in Minnesota called
Sonshine. We got a school bus and played
all over the Midwest for years, way before getting a recording contract, and
before Stryper or Whitecross were born.
There was only Resurrection Band, Petra, and Sweet Comfort Band, and a
few others. As the years went by, we saw
all these other bands start off and the genre really took off!
As a side note, ROX was inducted into the South Dakota Rock
N Roll Hall of Fame in 2021.
PRR: While we’re kind of on the subject, why do
you think Christian rock took off the way it did? I know the Jesus People USA movement of
Resurrection Band had an impact, and Petra was pretty strong from the start,
but there just seemed to be a boom that coincided with the mainstream metal
movement of the 80s. Was that a
coincidence or a splinter effect?
Rex: A splinter
effect, more so I think. Some was
musicians who, like us, were feeling unfulfilled and were looking for something
more in our lives. Sadly, as the genre and
industry grew, some saw it as an opportunity to make money. Not that making money is bad, but it was the
main motivation for some.
PRR: So, Thunder
From The Mountain was recorded on the tiny Image label. I can’t imagine they had the financial
backing to support any kind of touring, but did you hit the road for the
album,
outside of that one Omaha show?
Rex: Yes, but only
briefly. It wasn’t long after that when
Greg Bishop from X-Sinner called and asked if I would be interested in singing
on their next album, as they had just fired Dave Robbins.
PRR: Was there any reluctance to leaving your own
band to join another?
Rex: There was
because the offer was that I didn’t have to leave Zion to do it, so I
considered doing both bands. But once I
flew out to LA to audition, then flew back to LA to record the Peace Treaty album, and then flew back
out to LA yet again to go on tour, it just became obvious that I needed to move
to California and leave Zion.
PRR: What year was it when you made the decision
to move to LA?
Rex: 1992. Well, 1991, really, but the actual move was
in ’92.
PRR: So, prior to then, did you ever consider
heading to LA with Zion to try that scene?
Rex: No, not
really. We knew we weren’t in the
“happening” areas, like LA or Nashville, but for traveling out, we were smack
dab in the middle of the country, so traveling out was an easier reach for
us. That’s all we really cared about.
PRR: Was there any kind of culture shock when you
left our Midwest and hit California? Can
you describe the LA scene in 1991 and early 1992?
PRR: Were there other Christian bands actively
playing the Strip at the time? I know
Stryper was long gone by then, and Holy Soldier was probably gone by then,
also. Who were your contemporaries at
that time?
 |
| Rhino Bucket |
For us, our contemporaries were bands like Rhino Bucket, that were still doing it locally. Them and Broken Teeth. Bands like that.
PRR: What about Guardian or The Brave? Maybe Fear Not? Did you encounter them at any point?
Rex: Not really. The Brave was a follow-up act to us on the
Pakaderm label, but we never interacted much.
I met Jamie Rowe, but it was before he was in Guardian. He was still in Tempest who opened for Zion.
PRR: Some of the guys I have talked to, both in
bands and just music fans from the scene, say they could sense a darkness, even
an evil presence on the Strip. Did you
get that sense?
Rex: Not really, but
it is full of deviants and strange people, for sure! Most of the Hollywood area is like that, so I
can see why people would say that, especially if you’ve never seen things or
people like that before. It’s called
“Hollyweird” for a reason! (Laughs)
PRR: When grunge hit, were the LA bands aware of
it, or did a lot of them just keep doing what they were doing, figuring it was
just a phase and hair metal would recover?
Rex: I’m sure many
saw it that way, but at the same time, as the industry shifted to grunge, which
then quickly evolved into modern rock like Foo Fighters, STP, Tool, and the
like, and the big FM metal station, KNAC, started to lose ground to KROQ, which
was a modern rock format, it kind of sunk it for most bands. The metal scene dried up fast once that
happened, at least in California.
PRR: Before that happened, did X-Sinner ever get
any love from the big stations in LA?
Rex: We got played a
little. We were featured on a new,
up-and-coming bands segment, too. The
famous DJ, “Uncle Joe” Benson did, that for us.
PRR: Did you guys get to know any of the MTV hair
metal heroes at all? I know you
mentioned meeting Vixen…
Rex: Rhino Bucket,
for sure. There were others, but I don’t
remember who. The Marquee Club in Orange
County, where we were from, had many of those bands there, and we met some of
them there. That’s a Hustler strip club
now. (Laughs)
PRR: Hang on, making a note to avoid that
place! (Laughter) Were you ever approached with the idea of
doing videos at all, or had that ship sailed by the time Peace Treaty was done?
Rex: We had a guy who
had secured a Japanese distribution deal for us, and that would have included
doing some videos. Pakaderm killed the
deal though, because their terms for the deal were that it had to include ALL
the Pakaderm roster, not just us. They
only wanted us in Japan, so…
PRR: Even with the change in the scene at the
time, did Peace Treaty have a pretty
good tour?
Rex: Yes. In fact, some of the bootleg videos from
places like Albuquerque, New Mexico, are still on YouTube and fun to
watch. Touring died off after that,
though. In the 2000s, like 2008 onward,
we started getting calls to perform again, in places like Switzerland and
Germany. The last thing we did was a mini
tour with Daniel Band in Canada, not all that long ago. Well, and SkullFest with you, of course.
PRR: Of course!
(Laughs)
Rex: Time flies,
though. It’s been a few years now. Greg retired from the band…although I have
some news about that…so I play with local guys whenever I can.
PRR: Who did you guys tour with?
Rex: We did a few
shows with Bloodgood, together with one of the thrash bands. I honestly can’t remember if it was Vengeance
(Rising) or Deliverance. We mostly
headlined everywhere we played and local bands would open. I’m hearing that they want us to perform at
next year’s Immortal Fest in Ohio, if they do it again. They wanted us this year, but Greg was in
Spain.
PRR: That would be awesome! I know Dorn Reppert from Image Records is
pushing for it on Facebook.
Rex: Yeah, it sounds
like it would be great!
PRR: When you were touring with X-Sinner, or even
with Zion, were you ever confronted with the whole “Rock is Satan’s music”
thing from radical church groups?
Rex: Oh, sure. Guys would come up afterwards with bibles pen
to some verse or something, trying to show it to us. We didn’t experience that often, but it did
happen. While on tour with Bloodgood on
our way to West Virginia, I think it was, we got word that the Christians were
fasting and praying we wouldn’t come…and so were the Satanists! (Laughs)
PRR: (Laughter) Talk about not being wanted!
Rex: (Laughs) Right?!
PRR: Did anything about joining X-Sinner surprise
you?
Rex: Oh sure; things
are never how you think they are, or will be.
Greg was the boss of the band, for sure.
It was his band. I, of course,
couldn’t know that until I actually met them and joined. They all had pretty much successful
careers. Greg is an electrical engineer,
and Mike had a rehearsal studio business.
Slayer was actually one of his long time clients! When we played “Walking Evil” from our first
record for those guys, they flipped out and loved it! (Laughs)
PRR: Who was in the band at the time you were
brought in?
Rex: Greg on lead
guitar, and he’s the founding member.
Mike Buckner on drums, and Rob Kniep on bass. It’s the same lineup that’s on Get It.
PRR: It’s funny you mentioned that about Greg
because a lot of people I know assume you broke Zion up to create
X-Sinner. When I tell them you weren’t
even on the first X-Sinner album, they’re surprised.
Rex: Sure, I could see that.
Only the diehards know the truth! (Laughs)
PRR: Did you get to do much writing for Peace Treaty, or was the album already
written?
Rex: Most of the music was written, but I had complete responsibility to come up with the lyrics and
 |
| Original art idea for Peace Treaty |
their melody lines. The working title for the song “We Need Love” was “I Say No”…just something they threw down to track the music to. I totally changed it. They gave me carte blanche with the lyrics.
PRR: What was your recording experience like at
Pakaderm? Did you interact with the
Elefantes much?
Rex: Dino worked with
the band in the big room, called Studio A.
John oversaw all the vocal tracking in the smaller vocal room, called
Studio B. I worked with John
exclusively. I mean, we hung out with
Dino, too, but as far as work, it was John on my end.
PRR: That had to be exciting! They are known to be perfectionists and have
a pretty good idea of what sound they are going for with their bands…
Rex: John was very
demanding, but not unlike my experience with David Zaffiro. Both are similar when tracking vocals. “Do that again!” (Laughs)
Or “try it like this!” (Laughs)
PRR: (Laughter)
When you were writing the lyrics, was there any guidance or direction
about being Scripturally sound or anything like that?
Rex: No. They knew what I brought to the table when
they heard the Zion lyrics.
PRR: Was it intimidating at all to step into an
established band that had a record label and an album already under their belt?
 |
| Pre-Rex X-Sinner |
Rex: I had really liked their first album (Get It). It had come out about the same time as Zion’s, so I was more excited than anything to give it a go. They were on a bigger label, with Word behind Pakaderm, so I was liking that part, too.
Many people don’t realize that the Zion album had the most
top ten hit singles of any rock act that year.
Myrrh really wanted to sign Zion, but Dorn Reppert, the owner of Image
Records, wanted too much from them to do it.
They signed Holy Soldier instead.
Dorn regrets that now.
PRR: I’ve heard a lot of guys talk about how bad
the “Christian” labels treated them…
Rex: What you hear is
all true! (Laughs) Except Dorn and Image Records. He’s always been legit.
PRR: Did Pakaderm treat you badly? I’ve always heard they were good to their
bands. Now, Pure Metal…sheesh!...there
are some, ummm….less than pleasant things said about them…
Rex: I will only say
this: we didn’t care for Pakaderm’s production of our sound, and they were
making way more money on the albums than it would have cost us if we had just
hired them by their own hourly studio rates.
The budgets were so padded the bands could never totally recoup and pay
off the recording budget to receive any real profit. It was a case where the band could never see
any money other than the writer’s royalty.
That was why we left the label and did not record the third album with
Pakaderm. Word was providing the funds
for each project according to what Pakaderm told them it would cost.
PRR: Did you ever encounter bands who used
Christianity as their gimmick to gain notice from labels? I know of a couple that have received that
criticism…
Rex: I’ve heard of
some, but I’ve never encountered any of them personally.
Funny as it may sound, X-Sinner was never really into the
Christian scene. We didn’t keep track of
any of the bands. We just had no
interest.
PRR: When you were in X-Sinner, or even previously
in Zion, how much was your image a factor?
Were you encouraged to look a certain way? I was talking to a musician from another band
who had labels telling them that some members didn’t have “the look”.
Rex: That’s the
strange things labels could do, I guess.
Like they really know what’s up! (Laughter) Nah, we just looked and dressed how we
wanted. Zion was a bit more of the big
hair look, but X-Sinner was just mostly leather and jeans.
bands, in general, and Christian bands specifically. Was there any thought of getting grungy, similar to what Holy Soldier did with Promise Man?
Rex: No. A while
after the touring was done, we wanted off the Pakaderm label, but they wouldn’t
let us go at first. So, we recorded a
more modern rock-sounding album under the moniker of The Angry Einsteins, since
we couldn’t record as X-Sinner until Pakaderm let us go. It’s more Foo Fighter-ish and Bob Mould
inspired album. It almost landed us a
mainstream deal on a Sony label, and it’s one of Greg’s, and my, favorite
things we’ve tracked. I was the drummer
in the Einsteins, and we all sang. It
took over a year to complete.
We performed live just a handful of times in SoCal as The
Angry Einsteins, then Greg moved to Australia for his job. He was “down under” for about three years, or
so, before moving back to California.
 |
| Rex's current kit |
PRR: Did it feel good to get behind the kit again?
Rex: It did! I love drumming, and I own three kits
today. I’ll send you pictures of one of
them.
PRR: Was Angry Einsteins ever considered by Pakaderm to let you out of your contract?
Rex: No. By then, any and all communications to them
was through our attorney. We were just
out there doing what we enjoyed until they let us record as X-Sinner again.
PRR: Once you were finally in the clear,
label-wise, how did X-Sinner move forward?
Was there still the fire for X-Sinner to continue with new material?
Rex: There was, but
we had some other things we wanted to take care of, like Fire It Up.
PRR: That was actually the first album after
getting out of the Pakaderm contract, right?
Rex: Yeah, it was
basically Peace Treaty retracked and
remixed, with the new song, “Fire it Up” added to it.
PRR: What was the thought behind that? Was that a decision your new label, M8
Records, made, or was the band not happy with the original sound?
Rex: Both, but it was
mostly to improve the sound. We never
cared for Pakaderm’s mixes.
PRR: Tell me about your other project, GX.
Rex: Well, we
(X-sinner) eventually developed plans to do one last album to be called Going Out With a Bang. We started writing and tracking roughs
for it, but set it aside as Greg decided to retire from the band. His life was very hectic at the time and he
wanted to concentrate on that. Coupled
with the fact that our previous album, World
Covered in Blood, ended up being illegally downloaded in the hundreds of
thousands of times, there just wasn’t a lot of motivation to do another “free”
album.
So, GX came out of the blue during this time. A guy from Canada, named Glenn Thomas, got my number from somebody and had wanted me to maybe sing on a song he had recorded. I get calls like
that every so often, so I kind of blew him off. He said he was a studio musician who produces, mixes, and masters stuff for artists. I said, “send me the song”, and it was a great song, although the lyrics were cheesy (laughs). So, I changed them and tracked my stuff to it. It was now called “Love I.V.”, and it turned out so good I asked if he had any more songs. That one song led to a whole album, Bite Stick.
PRR: There was a pretty long layoff between Peace Treaty and Fire It Up and Loud and Proud…and
even Angry Einsteins. Was there any
thought of firing Zion back up?
Rex: Not really. We have always kept in contact over the
years, but we have only recorded since then.
No discussion of reuniting, mainly for logistics reasons, as none of us
live very close to each other these days.
PRR: Zion has recorded?
Rex: Yeah, we tracked
a brand new song called “Can’t Hold Me Down” that’s currently only available as
a digital download single. It’s on most
platforms now, I believe, like iTunes, etc.
I’d have to ask Tommy Bozung, the drummer, because he handled that part
of it. But I think it’s available in
most online stores.
PRR: Were you consulted on the recent reissues of
Zion’s material? I noticed a bonus track
on the reissue of Thunder…
Rex: I was very much involved. We re-tracked “Big Fall” for it, as that was supposed to be on the original but we ran out of time and budget, so we re-tracked it just for the remix/remaster of Thunder. The remix is more of what we had envisioned the original sounding like. It’s sonically so much better.
 |
| 2019 reissue cover |
There was only one song, “Less of Me” we couldn’t remix for it, because the master tape and tracks for it got lost somehow. It’s still on there, but it was only remastered, not remixed. The 2-inch tape reel that Zaffiro had that it was supposed to be on appears to be some other project that got tracked over it. When you’re in the middle of a project and you need another reel, you grab one. He probably grabbed that one not realizing what was on there.
PRR: What about the Thrillseeker CD that was put out by Retroactive Records?
Rex: That was
originally called History, and it
wasn’t produced for retail. It was
supposed to be just for the band for memories, but Retroactive wanted to
release it and had the idea to add the “Thrillseeker” track to help sell
it. It wasn’t a high production
recording. They did come up with some
cool cover art, though. (Laughs). It’s
mostly scrappy tracks and demos, and I was hesitant in putting that out,
honestly.
PRR: So during X-Sinner’s downtime, and without
thoughts of resurrecting Zion, was there any thought that the band might just
be done, or was the band kind of riding out the whole grunge/alternative
movement?
Rex: Well, like I
said, the Einsteins record took a little over a year to record. During that time, Greg moved away to
Australia, which kind of slowed the ability of the band to do anything
live. So, we did kind of ride the grunge
wave out, but not in a typical way, I guess.
Before Greg came back we released those Loud And Proud demos and stuff, which eventually led to us tracking
World Covered In Blood. Greg flew back to track his parts in my
home studio, then went back to Australia.
Then, not too long after that album came out, we started getting calls
to perform live again. Greg eventually
moved back and we started doing fly-in dates all over the place…Switzerland,
Germany, Canada…North Platte, Nebraska…(laughs). This recent Immortal Fest interest has helped
bring Greg out of band retirement, and we are discussing tracking a new album,
currently.
PRR: I know you keep teasing about North Platte,
Nebraska, but I want you to know that seeing you guys live was one of the true
highlights of the event for me. You guys
were awesome to everyone, and people still mention you and Whitecross to me,
honestly, more frequently than they mention Michael Sweet and Oz Fox…
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| Check out that Sunday lineup! |
Rex: That’s nice to hear. Thank you. I actually drove through there last July in my move back here and had some fond memories.
PRR: You are always invited to stop by my house
and say hi.
Rex: Be careful…I
might just stop! (Laughter)
PRR: The Christian metal subgenre is always
criticized for being copycats.
Whitecross is the “Christian Ratt”.
Fear Not is the “Christian Skid Row” or sometimes the “Christian
Slaughter”. And, of course, X-Sinner is
the “Christian AC/DC”. I highly doubt
anyone sets out to sound like a Christian version of anyone else, so do you
take that assessment as a compliment or as a cheap shot at your individual
artistry?
Rex: It’s a
compliment of sorts, I guess. We just
consider ourselves one of many bands that exhibit flavors of our influences,
just like Rhino Bucket or Airborne.
There was never any thought process of, “Hey! Let’s do music that sounds like…” fill in the
blank.
PRR: Rex Carroll told me if people want to compare
them to Ratt, he’d like to try comparing bank accounts, too! (Laughter)
Rex: (Laughter) True!
PRR: Are you always writing, even if it’s just
thoughts or song ideas?
Rex: Yes. I record ideas constantly on my voice
recorder on my phone. I have a ton of
guitar riff ideas recorded on it, too.
It’s funny because I just listened to a bunch of really old ones I had
tracked on previous phones, and somehow when the stuff got transferred onto my
newest phone, the files got corrupted and sound like fluctuating tape
recordings, speeding up and slowing down, really wobbly! (Laughs)
I don’t know how that happens to a digital recording, but once goes
from, say, two phones ago, it does that.
I have to sometimes try to figure out what I was actually playing at the
time, it’s so bad on some of them.
PRR: Speaking of guitar, I have people all the
time asking me what does so-and-so play?
What’s your guitar and rig of choice?
Rex: When in Zion, we
actually had the Zion guitar company make us all custom Zion guitars. We have the Radicaster. I use that for soloing. I use a 2001 Gibson SG Junior with a custom
Solodallas pick up installed in it for my rhythm guitar tracking. I use a red skull-covered Washburn Idol for
almost all the live stuff because it’s tough and it’s cheap. So, if the airlines destroy it, I’m not out
the big bucks like I would be if I took the others on the road.
PRR: Do you ever have thoughts of doing another X-Sinner album, even if you don’t tour with it, since Greg is mostly retired?
Rex: Funny you should
ask. We have decided to begin recording
another album from the remains of what was to be the Going Out With A Bang album we shelved when Greg retired. We are currently getting prepped for that.
PRR: Who will be on the record this time
around? You’ve been pretty solid with
the lineup from the get-go, with you, Greg, and Rob. Will you do the drumming, too?
Rex: We will be
having Glenn from GX handling the drumming chores. He’s the only drummer I’ve ever played with
that plays just like Phil Rudd of AC/DC.
I call him Glenn Rudd all the time! (Laughs) He will also be mixing and mastering it.
PRR: Is it easier with the internet and today’s
technology that allows you to work from just about anywhere? Will the band still get together for a time
to work on the album?
Rex: Today’s technology
certainly does make it easier, for sure.
But, there will be both. We will
get together for some of it, yes.
PRR: What would it mean to X-Sinner to be invited to a festival like ImmortalFest or some other festival? And is it doable? I know a lot of fans seem to want it…
Rex: Its very doable. There has been talk of having Zion, too, in the past, and that would be harder to pull off. But either way, those kinds of events are always enjoyable to play. We typically throw a Zion song into the X-Sinner set, anyway.
In fact...I heard a rumor that Zion might make a guest appearance during X-Sinner’s set at ImmortalFest ’23. Just a rumor, though, and you didn’t hear it from me! (Laughs)
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While Rex was kidding with me about the "rumors" of X-Sinner being at ImmortalFest, it has been confirmed this news is NOT simply a rumor; X-Sinner will be at ImmortalFest '23, and it is pretty much guaranteed that Zion will be making an appearance, as well. Check your calendars and mark the Labor Day weekend as being booked with plans to head to Ohio to see Rex and the gang!
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